Is it a Generational Thing?

[Seeker630]

Tonight I went to the local supermarket for a few things. My bill at the checkout was $17.40. The cashier was a very young girl of about 18 or 19 years of age. She looked fresh out of High School. I handed her a $20 bill, and she made a mistake and entered it on the register/computer as a $50.00 dollar bill, and it told her to give me like $32+ for my change. Of course I knew it was wrong as soon as I saw it come up on the LED screen. She also caught it and then canceled the transaction on the computer.

OK--- fine up to that point. But then she had no clue as to how to make the change from my bill to the twenty spot manually! I had to lean over quietly and tell her-----"My change is $2.60"---I mean we were in the Express line you know.

I suppose my point is that -----are our children being computer/calculator trained in school to the point that they can't function mathematically without them? I mean I can still remember my multiplication and addition tables from grade school. What the hell are those kids being taught now?

This is the second time this has happened to me that I know of.

[Josie]

It could have just been a fluke for her. I run a register every day, and 95% of the time, I can figure the change myself with out the register. But sometimes, your brain just freezes up. Maybe she was tired, or the last 3 customers were jerks, and upset her, or she has been running all day, or she just is having a bad day.

Now, if she screws up the next time you see her, then yeah, she's an idiot who shouldn't be running a register.

[Never]

They have not been taught how to count out change for decades now. They are taught they must do it all with the computerized cash register. Without that they are lost.

Tonight we had pizza delivered and the guy looked at the $50 we gave him wondering how to figure out the change.

I remember when they first put those cash registers in that would tell you the change. I refused to use it because I thought it was for stupid people. But you HAD to use it, so I always put the total in so that it said $0 change and I could do it myself. (Rebellious little cash register person wasn't I?)

[Ana H]

Exactly!!! In the home school setting I was allowed to teach my kids how to count back change. When Trevor went to public school, they told me he had to have a calculator for his math class. They alway used them!
I always wondered if all the computers crashed would the teeny boopers of today could manage!?

I think it is generational.

[Fizzle]

We had to do every calculation manually for my Basic math, Precalculus I and Precalculus II college classes. The only class where we have to use a calculator is chemistry. The professors remarked that over-reliance on calculators was going to make it difficult on us (although my math education* was so poor that calculator or no it would have been hard going), so I suppose there is a problem with this.

I do remember using calculators in middle school, but I'm not entirely certain if our teacher leaned towards machine-reliance. However. I don't know if it can be called generational since that seems to suggest that it's something inherent in the members of the generation itself (i.e. we are literally incapable of functioning without the computers/calculators).

*Or abilities, who knows.

PS: My solution? Cyborgs. Cyborgs all the way.

[homo hirsutus]

I worked a job for a year where I had to make change without a computer and I never had a problem. Then I got a job where I had a computer total the change for me. My first day I made the exact same mistake as the girl. I could have done the math on my own with no problem, but realizing I had made a mistake caused an instant spike in anxiety that completely scrambled my brain. I had to void the check and ring it up again. Hell, I remember it nine years later like it happened yesterday.

The fact that she was on the express lane makes it worse. It's a position that is watched carefully to be sure you are moving customers as fast as possible and usually doesn't have a bagger to do what would normally be a second job. When you have to work as fast as she does you outsource every possible task to make yourself a nanosecond faster (having a manager call for backup freaks her out that the manager is going to giver her shit about not being fast enough). Allowing the computer to do the math allows your brain to busy itself with moving/scanning (she probably memorized where the UPC codes are on the 100 most bought products, plus a couple dozen codes for fresh produce)/bagging (being sure she has enough bags waiting so she doesn't have to have a moment's break to get new ones) products while watching the customers to be sure they're not trying to sneak anything by her. It's so hectic that anything that slows you down can cause anxiety. When I started if someone pulled out a checkbook I would want to stab them in the face, but after about a week I realized that the minute it takes them to write the check gave me a single minute to look at the next customer to already start analyzing where the UPC codes are on each item and mentally figuring what is going to go in each bag. Plus, she's got the worst job in the store; not only because it's the most mind-numbing, but because she can easily spot the problem customer and unlike everyone else in the store she is stuck at the register where there is nothing she can do to avoid the asshole. So, I say give the girl a break. She probably goes home and dreams about all the bullshit she has to deal with running that goddamn register.

I'm not sure what would be "generational" about it, but she could probably run circles around the person who was doing her job 20 years ago.

[AspenMama]

My kids (14 and 10) can figure a tip in their heads just fine,and change I'm sure. They like to race me while I use my tip caculator on my phone. They have always attended a public school and both of them excel at math, (they blow the standardized test scores out of the water), whereas I suck at it. They often quiz each other in long drawn out math problems because they think it's fun. They rarely use a caculator for their homework, excepting certain algebra problems. So-- I don't know if you are looking a generational issue here at all with regard to math skills- perhaps it's more of a matter of a different way to do things rather than lack of skill.

[Seeker630]

I'm thinking now that her brain just locked up for a minute, because just before I gave her the correct figure for the change, she had pulled three or four singles and some change out of the till. I was about to tell her it was too much. I know it can happen, because I used to do her job myself.

[BeaverIslander]

OTOH ... as a college prof, I taught an intro class to junior level students. It was mostly conceptual material, but a few topics required some very simple math. I remember one exam question that required students to take 22% of 1,000. You would be amazed how many got it wrong because they'd forgotten to bring a calculator and couldn't do the problem on paper or in their heads. I had a lot of complaints about that "unfair" question.

[Seeker630]

Originally Posted by BeaverIslander

OTOH ... as a college prof, I taught an intro class to junior level students. It was mostly conceptual material, but a few topics required some very simple math. I remember one exam question that required students to take 22% of 1,000. You would be amazed how many got it wrong because they'd forgotten to bring a calculator and couldn't do the problem on paper or in their heads. I had a lot of complaints about that "unfair" question.

I heard something on NPR yesterday that said statistics currently indicate that some 25-30% of freshman college students now have to take remedial classes of one sort or another because they are coming out of high school unprepared for college level work. It seems our school system is getting dumbed-down faster than we knew. Especially in the sciences and math.

[Terry]

It's the same problem here in germany - most people born after 1980 are just used to a calculator and need a second or some more to remember the easiest calculations

But regarding this girl at the cash register I think HH is quite right. I know this job too.

[AspenMama]

Well I think that there's been a big push to turn that around with my kids' generation. At least with regard to math and in the particular area where I live. However, I am very concerned about the cuts in science programs. Currently my son has a wonderful middle school science teacher and loves loves that class. But it seems that they are trying to cram everything into that one class. My daughter who is in the 5th grade loves science too and has often complained about not having enough science. Her school previously had a special science teacher and room. Now all the science is taught by her home room teacher. She is looking forward to her first dissection soon. At a recent science fair I noticed that there was a fair number of participants with really dumb projects. There were a few really good ones as well. I just saw where my daughter got an A+. She is so funny about her grades. They remain crumpled in her backpack till I think to make her clean it out.

[Gurdur]

Originally Posted by BeaverIslander

OTOH ... as a college prof, I taught an intro class to junior level students. It was mostly conceptual material, but a few topics required some very simple math. I remember one exam question that required students to take 22% of 1,000. You would be amazed how many got it wrong because they'd forgotten to bring a calculator and couldn't do the problem on paper or in their heads. I had a lot of complaints about that "unfair" question.

Looking after newish students in a uni in Germany a while back, from one year to the next I was amazed to find that the new students could no longer do fractions, i.e. 1/12 x 2/5, and so on. From one year to the next, around 10 years ago or so they must have completely stopped teaching how to do division and multiplication of fractions. I found that delinquent, but then I find lots of things delinquent.

[Gurdur]

Originally Posted by Fizzle

... My solution? Cyborgs. ...

Wait until you meet a Cylon in red dress and high heels, I'll bet you change your mind and want humans back again.

[Seeker630]

Originally Posted by Gurdur

Looking after newish students in a uni in Germany a while back, from one year to the next I was amazed to find that the new students could no longer do fractions, i.e. 1/12 x 2/5, and so on. From one year to the next, around 10 years ago or so they must have completely stopped teaching how to do division and multiplication of fractions. I found that delinquent, but then I find lots of things delinquent.

Well in both Catholic and public school, I was taught to do fractions. I hated it but I could do them ( I had a really hard go with any maths as a kid, except for Geometry). But I have to say it's been years since I have had to do them again. Everything is decimal now, especially since the calculator came on the scene and the push for the international use of metrics. I'd be hard put to do any but a simple fractional computation now, it's been that long.

The U.S. is still one of the only countries left that hasn't fully adopted metrics, although with younger generations it's become more common. It's kind of fun when I drive into Canada the last few years. The last two cars I've had have a feature where you can switch all the instruments from SAE to Metric by just tapping a button on the dashboard. When I cross the bridge from Detroit to Windsor, I go instantly from mph to kph. It even converts the temperature reading from Fahrenheit to Celsius.

[homo hirsutus]

Originally Posted by Seeker630

The U.S. is still one of the only countries left that hasn't fully adopted metrics, although with younger generations it's become more common.

This fact made the fastener isle of the hardware store I worked in an absolute nightmare. Because people need nuts and bolts to fix stuff made in the US and elsewhere we had to have a full selection of both in all kinds of materials. As far as I can remember Burundi is the only other country officially using the imperial system. Eventually we will switch and I can't wait.

[Fizzle]

Originally Posted by Gurdur

Wait until you meet a Cylon in red dress and high heels, I'll bet you change your mind and want humans back again.

Nah, I'd probably drool.

[Gurdur]

Originally Posted by Fizzle

Nah, I'd probably drool.

You'ld drool till she started killing humans nastily. Then you'ld probably start feeling emotionally confused.

[BeaverIslander]

Originally Posted by homo hirsutus

As far as I can remember Burundi is the only other country officially using the imperial system.

I think Burundi is now metric ... it's Myanmar and the US who are holdouts. So we're in good company.

[Seeker630]

Originally Posted by homo hirsutus

This fact made the fastener isle of the hardware store I worked in an absolute nightmare. Because people need nuts and bolts to fix stuff made in the US and elsewhere we had to have a full selection of both in all kinds of materials. As far as I can remember Burundi is the only other country officially using the imperial system. Eventually we will switch and I can't wait.

I remember the wrenches from my Dad's tool chest he used for working on our cars and whatnot. Some were in 32nd's and 64th's of an inch. When I was in high school I couldn't wait to see the U.S. make the switch. Hell I hated working with fractions. I asked him one day when he was doing something to the family car why he needed so many different sizes of wrenches and "fastener" drivers--------his reply was classic-------"how do you think they sell tools?"

[Fizzle]

Originally Posted by Gurdur

You'ld drool till she started killing humans nastily. Then you'ld probably start feeling emotionally confused.

I am a teenager, you know. That's basically the default position.

[Don Alhambra]

Originally Posted by Fizzle

I am a teenager, you know. That's basically the default position.

Fizzle, you are awesome. Do stick around.

[Seeker630]

Originally Posted by Fizzle

I am a teenager, you know. That's basically the default position.

Not for much longer---then what's the excuse?

[Fizzle]

Originally Posted by Seeker630

Not for much longer---then what's the excuse?

I could just say that I wasn't paying attention to the years go by (I'm ADD too).

Which reminds me, I found evidence of the days when I used to have an H between those D's; it's a list of rules they made me write down in 3rd grade. I was quite a handful, apparently.

[links zwo drei vier]

Originally Posted by Never

They have not been taught how to count out change for decades now. They are taught they must do it all with the computerized cash register. Without that they are lost.

Because employers tend to assume we can do simple math, which most of us can.

It would help if mathematics was emphasized a bit more in public schools. But when I was in HS, I had to take math every year. Which sucks.

I remember when they first put those cash registers in that would tell you the change. I refused to use it because I thought it was for stupid people. But you HAD to use it, so I always put the total in so that it said $0 change and I could do it myself. (Rebellious little cash register person wasn't I?)

...Don't do this anymore, if you do wind up running some sort of register. It will throw the count off when the money is added up at the end of the night.


As a cashier in her mid-20s, I have to say that I really appreciate the insinuations made by many here that young people are stupid and incapable of adding.