The Stellanator needs surgery

[Little One-Eyed Wench]

We found out last week last our 4.5 year old lab needs knee surgery.

Stella has hip dysplasia and after vigorous exercise has a tendency to limp a bit. About a month ago she was outside playing with her boyfriend (an adorable german shepherd terrier mix named Carlos who lives a few doors down). When she came back in she wouldn't put weight on her left hind leg. It straightened out in a few days like usual, but she still would limp more than normal. I wanted to take her to the vet, but my husband insisted that this was typical for her. Finally, I took her to the vet last week and found out that her problems have nothing to do with her hips. Stella has torn a ligament in her knee.

The surgery they want to do is called a TPLO procedure. Hubby and I looked it up on the net and saw many success stories. We also found one website (out of thousands) that said this procedure just lines the vet's pockets. Guess which scenario my husband now believes?

Does anyone have any experience with this problem? I need back up.

[AspenMama]

I know my brother had a couple of big dogs and had to do a knee surgery for at least one of them. The dog was much better off afterwards.

What happens if you don't do the surgery?

[Little One-Eyed Wench]

If they don't do the surgery arthritis will set in and she'll be in pain and unable to use the leg.

My husband agrees that this needs to be done, but the site recommends the old procedure which according to my vet is only done on small, less active dogs now. It also costs about 1/2 that of the new procedure. Stella is very active (goes for daily walks, hikes at the nature center, plays with neighbor dogs - she's quite the social butterfly) and weighs 60lbs. She's small for a lab, but not a small dog.

The older procedure also requires more down time to heal since they are counting on scar tissue instead of a steel plate to keep things in place. Either way poor Stella's summer is down the tubes. It will be at least 4-6 months before she can play with her buddies or go on regular walks again.

We have an appointment with the surgeon on April 17th. I told hubby that I would go with what the doctor recommended. My vet already faxed the surgery center with all the info, so they may do the surgery that day. My husband wants to go, but may be on the road.

I just wanted to see if anyone had any first hand experience with this. I am not optimistic about the older procedure, but I'm trying to keep an open mind. My husband is really pushing for the less expensive procedure, but I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice Stella's mobility for that - if that would even be the case. I don't know. I don't have any direct quotes, but it looks like the new one costs around $3000 and the old one around $1500. A friend of ours has used this surgery center and said they are very good about payment plans. We got our tax return so that will help, but we've had other expenses pop up recently too. This is a tough one.

[Never]

If she's healthy otherwise, I'd go for the one that is more likely to give her full mobility. (Then again, you're talking to someone who paid for minor surgery on a rabbit so factor that in)

[janedoe]

nothing wrong with that i used to have a rabbit. i agree about the surgery. he'd want the same for his knee, right?

[BeaverIslander]

OSU has a big veterinary school, doesn't it? ... sounds to me like a consultation with a veterinary surgeon there is in order, either in-person or by phone. You might also find that they have a clinic in which they'll do the surgery at a lower price than a private vet.

[AspenMama]

Originally Posted by Little One-Eyed Wench

I am not optimistic about the older procedure, but I'm trying to keep an open mind. My husband is really pushing for the less expensive procedure, but I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice Stella's mobility for that - if that would even be the case. I don't know. I don't have any direct quotes, but it looks like the new one costs around $3000 and the old one around $1500.

I think you have to consider what the long term costs might be too. If you go with the less expensive surgery and it doesn't work, will you then have to pop for another surgery at some later date?

[AspenMama]

Originally Posted by Never

If she's healthy otherwise, I'd go for the one that is more likely to give her full mobility. (Then again, you're talking to someone who paid for minor surgery on a rabbit so factor that in)

Rabbits are very evil creatures who dig in my garden and under my house. They are pests.

[homo hirsutus]

Wow! $3000!?!? Not to be a dick, but I couldn't imagine putting that much into a dog even if I had the money. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog, but I couldn't justify spending that much on her. I would ask the doc what they used to do for it before there were veternarians (short of shooting her).

[dglas]

Originally Posted by AspenMama

Rabbits are very evil creatures who dig in my garden and under my house. They are pests.

[AspenMama]

Not to mention the suicidal baby bunnies who in the spring leap down into my window wells and quietly starve to death until I see them through my basement window. Then I have to go out there with the rubber gloves and my step stool (because I'm too short too step out without help) and get them out. Every once in a while I'm able to get one that's still alive and toss it back into my yard to create more havoc.

Yeah, I know, covers would be a good plan. Except I've got an oddly sized window well and haven't figured that out yet.

[AspenMama]

Originally Posted by homo hirsutus

Wow! $3000!?!? Not to be a dick, but I couldn't imagine putting that much into a dog even if I had the money. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog, but I couldn't justify spending that much on her. I would ask the doc what they used to do for it before there were veternarians (short of shooting her).

You know, I think that is a very tough choice to make and for me, it would largely depend on the age of the animal and how likely their quality of life will improve after the surgery. I suppose it would also have to depend on whether or not I could also make my mortgage payment and feed my children for the next two months.

[Little One-Eyed Wench]

Originally Posted by BeaverIslander

OSU has a big veterinary school, doesn't it? ... sounds to me like a consultation with a veterinary surgeon there is in order, either in-person or by phone. You might also find that they have a clinic in which they'll do the surgery at a lower price than a private vet.

Thanks BI. I'll check that angle out.

Originally Posted by AspenMama

I think you have to consider what the long term costs might be too. If you go with the less expensive surgery and it doesn't work, will you then have to pop for another surgery at some later date?

That's a possibility AM. My research also shows that the new surgery works better on a 'virgin' knee. Trying to do this procedure after the old one was done may not work as well. However, it's stuff like this that makes my husband suspicious. He feels they are pushing it too hard.

Originally Posted by homo hirsutus

Wow! $3000!?!? Not to be a dick, but I couldn't imagine putting that much into a dog even if I had the money. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog, but I couldn't justify spending that much on her. I would ask the doc what they used to do for it before there were veternarians (short of shooting her).

She more than a dog. She's family.

Originally Posted by dglas

Poor bunny.
**Rubs behind ears**:

[Herk]

Last week, I was browsing channels and happened upon a pet channel program about boxers. I have a great love for them so I watched it. One boxer had a torn ligament that goes over the knee. Without it, the knee goes out of joint.

They did the surgery and it was quite successful, and there was the after-surgery therapy. I was quite impressed: they had a big tank like an aquarium with a treadmill in it. They put the dog in, close the door, and the water fills and makes the dog bouyant so that it doesn't put as much pressure on the healing knee.

If I could afford it, I would probably have the surgery done. If not, I'd be really sad about the alternatives.

[grumpy]

Housebreakable pests.

[Pyrogenesis]

Wow, $3000 is expensive. I've had several pets and many have had surgeries. We found our dog hit by a car, one of the legs was completely out of joint. They had to cut the leg up to put it back and fix all the damaged stuff. But even that cost only about $200. The operation to get the cat neutered only cost about $30, operation+meds. And no, this is not a third-world country anymore, some stuff costs more here than in the rest of Europe.

[homo hirsutus]

Wow, our animal health care system is as F'd up as our human health care system. WTF?

[Never]

Originally Posted by homo hirsutus

Wow, our animal health care system is as F'd up as our human health care system. WTF?

Yes, it is. One of the girls I work with takes in homeless cats and helps them.
The biggest problem is being unable to afford to "fix" them and get feline leukemia tests for all of them. She takes care of as many as she can.

The cost of neutering usually ranges from $50 to $100. The cost of spaying, which is more complicated, usually ranges from $100 to $200.

from here

I did a search for her to find vets/organizations that help with cheaper services. She had to drive about 3 hours away (which she did) and it was a reduces fee, but still like $60 for each cat. It's no wonder people don't get it done.

[homo hirsutus]

The PETA headquarters is here in Norfolk. They'll do it for free on certain days of the month. Incidentally, they also run the only animal shelter in this clusterfuck of seven cities that kills animals. All the rest are "no-kill." Go figure.

[AspenMama]

Originally Posted by homo hirsutus

The PETA headquarters is here in Norfolk. They'll do it for free on certain days of the month. Incidentally, they also run the only animal shelter in this clusterfuck of seven cities that kills animals. All the rest are "no-kill." Go figure.

Now that surprises me! PETA of the put a naked woman in a cage on a busy pedestrian mall among other wild protests....

[homo hirsutus]

They also got in some shit a few years ago for dumping dead animals from their shelter in a dumpster behind a wally-world instead of disposing of them properly. When they traced the animals they found out they were from North Carolina. The people who originally owned them said that when the PETA people picked up thier animals they were told they were going to a no-kill shelter. Whups.

[Deacon Doubtmonger]

Alas, no personal experience, but I hope hugs are accepted ...

{{{{{{{{{{Stella}}}}}}}}}}

[NonNun]

LOEW, I hate to take the ultra-skeptic view here, but I'm a little suspicious over the insistence that the $3,000 procedure is the superior one. And after all, Stella doesn't have to run marathons or work to feed your family; she just needs to do doggie stuff.

I would look into the cheaper procedure and its outcomes in more detail.