Carter's Book - Palestine Peace not Apartheid

[retrow]

Recently, Jimmy Carter came out with his book based on Israel-Palestine affairs. Its name has caused quite an uproar, especially in the conservative and Jewish circles. And not surprisingly, the label of 'antisemitic' has been slapped on to him. To me its sounds pretty lame.

I agree that antisemitism is a reality, however when anyone opposing or questioning Israel's foreign policy and military actions is called an antisemite, it starts reflecting poorly. Its like calling wolf every time you hear something rustling in the hedges.

Carter's use of the word 'Apartheid' does raise some eyebrows. But that was his whole intent, and throughout his book he explains why he uses that particular term.

Do you feel that he is justified in naming his book the way he did?

I don't know anything about the book other than what you told me but I've watched a special with Jimmy Carter recently where they just interviewed him for an hour or more. I think it was on Georgia PBS. I can't see that he would be antisemite in the least. He may not have done the best job during his presidency but he's made a real effort at being the best human he can be. He really has become quite the author huh? I need to start reading some of his stuff, other than the religious stuff.

[retrow]

You can get a brief idea about the book here

P.S: Can a moderator change the title of the thread to read 'Carter' instead of 'Cater'? Thanks!

[verte]

He can call his book whatever he pleases. As for the conservative uproar, eh, that hack Michael Savage had a book called, "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder," and the planet is still turning.

[Pyrogenesis]

For many jews, "antisemitism" has become a political extortion tool, and I find that very disturbing.

He can call his book whatever he pleases. As for the conservative uproar, eh, that hack Michael Savage had a book called, "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder," and the planet is still turning.

My all-time favourite book title is Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right.

[verte]

Originally Posted by Pyrogenesis

"antisemitism" has become a political extortion tool

They throw that term around like so much birdseed here, it is extremely annoying. I remember a very funny incident when an acquaintance of mine (who was very critical of some of Israel's policies) was called an "antisemite" by some idiot at a party we were attending...but she was actually an Israeli citizen.

[retrow]

^

The look on that idiot's face must have been priceless!

[Godless Dave]

Hell, yes.

I haven't read the book, so I can't answer specific criticisms or say whether I agree with Carter.

But it just infuriates me how so many Israelis and American supporters of Israel refuse to take one drop of responsibility for the situation. I assign about 70% of the blame to Palestinian militants and their backers in the Islamic world. But Israel has done many, many things to exacerbate the crisis, especially since Rabin's assassination. The settlements and the annexation wall are just blatant in their offensiveness, but so many Israel supporters absolutely refuse to acknowledge that.

At some point citizens of any powerful nation have to acknowledge that their country has done some terrible things. Most Israeli citizens haven't reached that point yet. My country is 172 years older than Israel and many of my countrymen still won't admit the terrible things we did to American Indians and black people decades ago, let alone what we did in Vietnam, Iran, Guatamala, Chile, and Nicaragua in the recent past.

So anyone who has the courage to say what Carter is saying will be vililfied. I take some consolation in knowing that there are Israeli citizens who feel as he does, even if their government ignores them. I also know there are Jewish Americans who feel as he does; my dad married one. Maybe in 100 years or so we'll be vindicated and can say "I told you so." Yay.

[Puck]

I'm sure Carter had to know that antisemitic would be painted all over him with that title and it's contents. And yet he had the courage to go ahead with it. Good for him.

[Ikari Gendou]

I want to vote "hell yes," but yes will have to do.

The United States media is so incrediably bias towards Israel, that they can do nothing wrong. I am a student of the Israel-Palestinian/Arab conflict, and it is shocking to discover some of the actions the Zionists have commited.

An exerpt from one of the original Zionist leaders, Vladimir Jabotisky's, writings Iron Wall:

To the hackneyed reproach that this point of view[taking the Palestinian's land] is unethical, I answer, ’absolutely untrue.’ This is our ethic. There is no other ethic. As long as there is the faintest spark of hope for the Arabs to impede us, they will not sell these hopes – not for any sweet words nor for any tasty morsel, because this is not a rabble but a people, a living people. And no people makes such enormous concessions on such fateful questions, except when there is no hope left, until we have removed every opening visible in the Iron Wall.

Note: I am not Anti-Semetic.

[Gurdur]

Originally Posted by retrow

P.S: Can a moderator change the title of the thread to read 'Carter' instead of 'Cater'? Thanks!

Done

[Pyrogenesis]

As always, personal backgrounds shape the way things are perceived. Usually, when I talk to people living in the larger western countries, they tend to support Israel. When I talk to my own countrymen, the overwhelming majority supports Palestine. Why? Specific knowledge of the situation aside, I think it's simply easier for us to perceive the wishes and desires of the "little people", the "oppressed" palestinians, because it reminds us of Estonia's own history under the Soviet terror. For Americans, on the other hand, it's much easier to take the side of those who are apparently terrorised by a minority group.

[retrow]

Originally Posted by Pyrogenesis

I think it's simply easier for us to perceive the wishes and desires of the "little people"...

I completely agree. Experiencing a parallel living condition makes it easier to understand what the oppressed people experience.

Gurdur, thanks for fixing the typo in the thread title

[verte]

Originally Posted by Pyrogenesis

For Americans, on the other hand, it's much easier to take the side of those who are apparently terrorised by a minority group.

There's actually a fair amount of disagreement about Israel's policies in the US, it varies depending on the part of the country and the political party. Not all Jewish people in the US support Israel's policies (depends on if they voted for Kerry or Bushy), a fair amount of survivalist types tend to agree with Mel Gibson's daddy, and Fox News fans in Kansas believe whatever the hell they're told to believe. The Fox News fans also tend to think we are being overrun by hordes of Mexican immigrants who want to destroy civilization, so I guess they do feel terrorized by minority groups. Or liberals. Or anyone who uses words of two syllables.

[Ikari Gendou]

As always, personal backgrounds shape the way things are perceived. Usually, when I talk to people living in the larger western countries, they tend to support Israel. When I talk to my own countrymen, the overwhelming majority supports Palestine. Why? Specific knowledge of the situation aside, I think it's simply easier for us to perceive the wishes and desires of the "little people", the "oppressed" palestinians, because it reminds us of Estonia's own history under the Soviet terror. For Americans, on the other hand, it's much easier to take the side of those who are apparently terrorised by a minority group.

Many Americans suffer from a superiority complex. They believe the United States is the greatest, most perfect country on the face of the Earth. Instead of using this position to be a just nation, they become a Yahweh type being, and label everyone a sinner who does not conform to their vision. Conservatives usually suffer from this more so than Liberals.

I agree Ikari, but it is important to stress that not all Americans are like that. I know you did add that but I thought it was important to point out again.

[Pyrogenesis]

Personally, I don't think the "American-like" versus "everybody-else-like" distinction is valid. There are very diverse backgrounds for every person, and the level about which I was talking about comes in at such a high level of generality that particular states become pretty much meaningless. I mean, I don't have to have lived in Estonian particularly to feel the Soviet oppression of a small occupied country. I could've lived in Latvia, Lithuania, or wherever. Similarly, reducing the opposite to "USA" does not work. Similar attitudes are at work in any large country - but not for every individual person.

Did that make sense? I'm actually pretty drunk.

[Ikari Gendou]

Did that make sense? I'm actually pretty drunk.

I find it to be a little vague.

[Shake]

I wasn't a fan of him as President, but have heard him speak before and know he's a smart man. It seems to me that the use of that word is not only justified, but appropriate. Just because some people can't shrug off connotations linked to another usage of the same word, doesn't make it any less valid.